Sun, June 27th, 2004 by Tudy
This is my first post here and I hope Im posting revelantly.
Ive had to admit to myself of late that trying to be something or do something that doesnt reflect the true you just isnt going to get you anywhere. Im using photoblogging here as an example but as you all probably know by now, unlike myself, if the shoes doesnt fit then don't try to wear it. It hurts when you do that.
When I first started my photoblog I simply took pictures and put them online to see. I really didnt even know of many other photoblog sites. It was fun, it was joyful. My parents oohhed and awwwed. Then I found photoblogs.org. I was suddenly the one oohhing and awwing. Shortly there after I realized "Hey, this is kind of like a competition thang going on here". I got caught up in the game. I visited Photoblog after photoblog and commented like nobodys business. My rating picked up.. I was moving up. (I was getting a piece of the pie) but then someone prominent on the list of list, made a statement to me in email that stopped me dead in my tracks.
He said
"Boy you do get around don't you, I see you everywhere, where do you find the time? I barely have time to turn on my computer."
That statement made me think and I asked myself several questions.
- Am I number 4 on the hot blogs because of the merit of my photos or am I number 4 because Ive visited every blog known to man?
- Do I really enjoy my photography as much as I did in the beginning?
- Do I even have time to take pictures like I want because visiting the universe of photoblogs takes way to much time?
- Why are you taking pictures of a rock and of rust ? Thats not your style. Because so and so takes those and he is way up there on the list?
I was forced the very next day to learn the horrid truth. My server went down and I crashed in a matter of days from number 4 on the hot blogs list to none existent on the list. At first this fact was very painful, but then I came to the conclusion that maybe I wasnt really putting the most effort into learning to photograph, to really see things and capturing them. Maybe I was on the list because most people are just nice and reciprocate a visit when they are visited? I wanted to know. So I stopped the frenzy of visiting every single blog on earth and became much more selective. No Im not on the list anymore but Im enjoying photography more of late. Photoblogs.org is a great place to enjoy great photography. Its a great place to learn photography too. Im so glad I found it. For me it was and is a great place to help you learn about yourself and develop your own style. Please tell me Im not the only one that has done this and felt like this?
Have you ever found yourself caught up in the game? Would you even call it a game and if so what are you feelings about playing?
June 27th, 2004 at 7:38 am
Thanks for this. I just got a digital camera and because I'm a web developer got a presentable-looking photoblog up pretty fast. But I'm getting ready for a long trip - my longest - and I think I'm prone to looking for last-minute distractions to procrastinate the real planning and headaches involved, and playing the game, as you call it, is probably one of these. Thanks for the heads-up.
June 27th, 2004 at 8:34 am
Every artist needs to find a way to publicize her/his work. Self-satisfaction can only go so far when it has to compete with family, work, single malt and Gran Turismo. In photoblogging there are essentially three ways to make yourself known: Listing your site on Photoblogs.org only brings in traffic once you make it to one of the lists. Another efficient method is participating in memes, especially the newer ones. Please raise your hand if, every week, you visit everyone of the >400 entries in Photo Friday. If you did, congratulations, according to my logs you're the exception. Commenting is the only sure way of brigning in at least one visitor and is somewhat akin to a politician going door to door. The problem is that it requires a significant commitment but at least you get to see a lot of neat (and sometime not so neat) photography.
The questions you need to ask yourself are: Is it still a hobby to you or is it becoming like work? Is your photography good enough so that the people you bring in with comments become regular visitors? (In your case I'd say yes). For an equal amount of self-promotion, is the number of hits growing at a constant rate?
One big problem with the rankings is that they are becoming "stale". In a previous entry, I demonstrated that many of the sites on the Hot List owe their exalted status to new members building up their favorite lists. Most members don't renew their old favorites (as I sometime do in a response to an especially good series) as they may not realize that this affect Hot List ranking. Maybe you should have asked that "prominent person on the list of list" when was the last time that she/he cleaned up and updated her/his own list of favorites. If they barely have time to turn on their computer, does it mean that they don't have time to return anything to the community that brings them so much exposure? This is especially relevant as the entry barrier for new and exciting photobloggers is getting higher and higher. When I first got "in the game", 27 favorites got you a top 100...now you need 68. Don't feel bad because you're willing to work harder at it.
Once you make it on the list, to the point where one or two favorites won't really matter, then you can "relax" and actually start enjoying yourself. Maybe once a month, I go on a photoshopping spree. Visiting lots of sites, leaving tons of comments, cleaning up my favorites. Like single malt and everything else, moderation is the key.
June 27th, 2004 at 9:30 am
Tudy, I had this whole big post thing typed up, but my dog ate it hahha. HA HA! No no really, my 1 year old buggered it up for me by pressing the restart button on my pc =( She does that all the time.
So Ill try to sum it up... I really appreciate your comments when you comment on my blog. I dont care how many blogs you visit, it means alot to me. I think we all get caught up in it sometimes.
And two, the whole voting, hottest thing..I agree with a lot of what Nantel has said.
I wish there was another way too - and have mailed a few suggestions in. I really wish the love could be spread round more evenly. I think a lot in the top 100 feel the same way and try to give back to the community.
I feel "guilty" a lot for the hits Art and I get from being in the top 10 when there are sooo many deserving artists *I reacon photographers are artists ;)* out there. And a lot that voice they wish there was a fairer system. Coz Im in the top 10 I feel bad commenting on the top 10 even. Hey since we are being honest here..lol...
In short..I really appreciate the photoblog communtiy. It has its flaws. It also has its really really great points. Like the people. And Tudy, your one of them. Thx for posting this. =)
June 27th, 2004 at 9:46 am
I remember a couple of weeks ago I decided to spend a couple of days trying to get into the Hot List. Every couple of minutes I would hit the reload button and ping the Photoblogs website. It's amazing how many people click on those blogs that visit photoblogs.org! But other than ruining 3 days of work, It didn't get any farther than the 34th place. And it's so ephemeral! Why I did this? Because a month and a half ago I saw a post on this blog, right here, talking about "cheating", but I never knew what it was about. The post disappeared as soon as it appeared. I guess it was giving too much information? I don't know.
I have stopped playing the game, first because I don't have time and I don't belive the system is completely fair. I just focused on my photography and if someone happens to click on that link, they are very welcome! Unfortunately I cannot guarantee that I will go back to the person who added my website to their favorites because I just have too many of them on my list and I don't know what recycling the favorites list is. If I like a photoblog, chances are that I will like it forever. I don't like throwing people away.
With this, you all have a nice a day!
June 27th, 2004 at 10:25 am
Tudy and all, very interesting post and discussion. I’ve been visiting photologs for a long while and was very reluctant to add my site to it. I see all these top lists as too much of a competition – but some folks reminded me that photologs.org is also a community and a great way to find other photologs. So today I took the bold step and added my site to the directory. Now you bring again the issue of competition. I suppose this hobby can be relaxing or stressful; it all depends on your approach. I’m planning to ignore the competitive side of it and carry on enjoying photos as usual. And Tudy I’m glad for the comment you left on my site, without it I wouldn’t ever find yours… there are so many out there and time (and bandwidth) is limited. Have fun
June 27th, 2004 at 10:45 am
Oh yea!! Im Sooo glad people understand what I was saying. Riris its right when you say its a lot of work and if you like that kind of work and get enjoyment out of it.. great. I just found myself getting frustrated and anal-izing every photo I put up. If I didnt get many comments I figured the picture sucked. lol Ive just realized you cant please all the people all the time. Everyone has different likes and dislikes and 2 people can look at the same photo and see 2 different things. Jinky..ya shouldnt feel guilty. I cant see one person in that top 10 that doesnt deserve to be there. Your photos are fantastic and Ive learned some things looking at them...hey Im even going to take a photo course at the local college in August so I can develop my own film too. Go ME!
June 27th, 2004 at 11:58 am
Tudy, first I want to say how much I've appreciated your comments. To people who are just starting out, it means a lot to have a total stranger say something nice about thier work... especially a stranger who posts awesome pics like this http://www.eggsquizit.com/oui/archives/2004/05/bustin_loose.php
To answer your question, yeah I did get caught up in the game. For whatever reason my site has climbed the ranks a couple of times since I started. On the list... then up and up and up... up to #13 at one point (ridiculous), and then suddenly - poof, gone, off the list. I had no idea why or how I got there, and no idea why or how I fell off.
This last time it happened I decided to stop thinking about it, stop checking so much because it's out of my control and wasn't the reason I started. (OK I started to be cool like Jinky, but that's beside the point). All I want to do is keep taking pictures, keep writing smartass comments to go with them, and hope that some people find my site entertaining.
Unless I make it back up to #13 again. I bet I won't be so chill about it then. LOL
June 27th, 2004 at 12:42 pm
Tudy, obviously -the one whom send you such an email are really jealous of what you been doing all this while. don't give a heck. don't ever bother with what others wanna say. let them carry on with their ugly and kiddy behaviours.
be yourself. do whatever you want as long you're happy. always remember what is your main objective for putting up your photoblog on the net (and for public viewing).
for the past months, since i registered with photoblog.org, i found that NOT EVERYONE are really sincere in giving comments on fellow photo bloggers site. to be frank, many are damn hypocrites.
just imagine, if a photo of a rubbish dump they would praise with such stereo-type lines, like: "great picture." "wonderful shots." "excellent..." and "blah blah blah..." another word, nothing constructives.
i wrote this from the bottom of my heart. no intention to be sarcasm to any one out there.
thank you.
June 27th, 2004 at 2:47 pm
personally, i think photoblogging and this site are what you make of it. having been here a little over a month, i would say my experience has been extremeley positive. i have been able to find several amazing photoblogs that would never would have be known to me, i have made a few friends, and heck, i even got a gmail invitation! what more do you want?
of course some of our pictures are going to look "similar", there are only so many things you can shoot out there. i don't really worry about that. i shoot things that interest me, and i'm sure others out there find the same things interesting just by the sheer number of photographers. who hasn't taken a picture of a flower?
as for the comments, i try to comment on pictures i love. no, i don't go into great detail about why i like them and don't expect others to do the same. we all have lives, and i don't mind the "nice shot" comments. on that note i don't feel it is necessary to comment on images i don't like. it is just my personal opinion, and serves no purpose to the photographer. photography is so subjective that it isn't fair for me to say it has to only be presented in one way. some of my own personal fave photos have zero comments, but that doesn't make them "bad" in my eyes.
all of us are here obviously because we love photography, and sharing our passion with others. in the end your photoblog, and photography should make you happy, not everyone else. as long as you enjoy your photos, chances are someone else, or several others will too. it is only a game, if you choose it to be.
June 27th, 2004 at 2:53 pm
I have a problem with your comment Ronn. The very few times I leave a comment on a website is after have gone through almost ALL the pictures. I usually pick my favorites and leave comments on them. These pictures are often too stunning and there isn't much to say other than "excellent" or "great". I don't think that makes me a hypocrit.
There is a distinction to make I think : are those who leave comments people from your favorites list? Maybe this is just a way for them to say "thanks".
Then, are these people regularily coming back? Maybe they don't like leaving comments, but they do enjoy your work. I am one of those. I do visit those websites again and again, but I never get too technical in my comments. "Great job", "excellent", "stunning", "good composition" is usually the kind of comment that I leave. I am not a professional and talking about DOF, aperture and so on would make me feel hypocrite.
Receiving very few comments on my blog, I am always happy even with a comment from an accidental visitor who might be there just to make himself/herself known. Anyway, I am sorry if I got out of topic, but I just wanted to say that we should all acknowledge these comments and be happy to receive them, regardless of the motive.
June 27th, 2004 at 3:33 pm
tudy, thanks for bringing up this topic and being so up front about it.
i put up my photoblog because i've been taking photographs since i got my first slr since 1970. i have many photos and even more negatives that i haven't had the opportunity to look at in years.
i have only so much wall space and only so many friends and relatives to share them with so i felt that the best way to do that was to set up a blog. i figured it would force me to get my best stuff (from yesterday and today) out there for others to see.
another part of my motivation was going to a favorite brunch place of mine in April and seeing an photo exhibition by two photographers whose work was, IMHO, fair-to-midland at best and mediocre at worst. and to add insult to injury, they were charging $400 and up for each photograph. i was outraged. i knew i was a better photographer than both of them and i'd seen much, much better work posted here in the photoblogs.org community.
since i've posted my blog on this site early this month, i've been extremely pleased that i've managed to have gotten eight people who have kindly listed me on their favorites list. for me, it's been a great honor and gives me a great deal of personal pleasure.
yeah, it would be nice if i could, at the very least, crack the top 500 (just two more favorites to go but i won't give myself a favorite just to get there, either. to me that's quasi-cheating). it would, hopefully, give my blog (which i've only been running since May 1) more exposure but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.
the fact is that i'm not in it just to get on the top 10, top 100 or even the top 500. i take photos for me and because i truly love photography. i know that i've done good work over the years as an advanced amateur and i'm interested in sharing my photos with the photoblogging world, getting comments when someone is inspired by my work, and making comments to others when i see something that is truly wonderful, inspiring and that i might learn something from.
there are some extraordinary photographers in this community (Tudy, you're one of them). i've learned a great deal from them and have been inspired and influenced by their work.
June 27th, 2004 at 3:43 pm
mr bill please check your programming since, on my Mac, all of your links take be back to your front page...even the about page which is why I have to use such a "public" forum to warn you.
June 27th, 2004 at 5:04 pm
Is giving yourself a favorite cheating? I am certainly biased--I like my photos a lot, and spend more time looking at them than anyone else's . . . so I guess I have no problem saying "I like me!"
Seriously, as everyone here has echoed, thanks for this post, Tudy.
I think your waitress (and mine, too) is spot on when she says this site is all what you make of it. People use it in a number of different ways --some post their sites and never return, and others scramble to the top. I don't see that as a game, really . . . if there are those who are trying to establish careers in photography, it's in their best interest to get all the exposure they can.
Two related points:
Firstly, you won't get critical comments unless you ask for them. And I'm not sure a photoblog is the place to even ask for them, because doing so implies one is getting significant numbers of knowledgeable visitors . . . for true photographic criticism, one might head to photo.net.
Secondly, in the early days of blogging there were an elite few: kottke, anil dash, etc. etc., et al. These elite are still out there and doing good things, but they've had to maintain a high level of content as the blogosphere has become saturated . . . others have come out of nowhere to become world-renowned (or the blogging equivalent). The same goes for photoblogging: those at the top have to remain hot, and those who are new have to be hotter. Content is king, kids. Look at numero uno, Chromasia . . . djn has only been posting since February . . .
June 27th, 2004 at 5:51 pm
Oh yeah Kris he is awesome... didnt mean to imply that everyone was playing a game.. only myself.. I was playing the game. Like I said all those in the top hot and top 10 really deserve to be there. There wonderful photographers. And geeze.. if someone has something critical to say on my blog I think Id fall apart. LOL Just kidding. In a nutshell I was saying I didnt want to be on the top lists simply because I was visiting blogs and commenting like mad. If Im going to be there I want to be there because of the merit of my photos... I quit trying to "Play" my way up. Actually when I posted this I was ready to delete it right away cause I didnt think anyone but me did that. LOL. Didnt want anyone to know I was playing.
June 27th, 2004 at 6:15 pm
lol @ (and mine, too).
June 27th, 2004 at 6:20 pm
Naw Tudy your not alone. Everyone is playing. The world wide web is one big marketing exploit. People put their sites up and market them. This is another way to market our sites. It sounds kinda nasty when put like that but its the cold facts. hehe. Ive not met a single person who doesnt at one time or another, market their site.
June 27th, 2004 at 7:08 pm
wait - other people have photoblogs?
June 27th, 2004 at 7:30 pm
smacking Ian on the back of the head
June 27th, 2004 at 9:50 pm
yep tudy, good that u raised this issue, coz i think it's always tugging at our hearts. call it conscience then.
i think the game i've been guilty of playing includes using people. like taking photos of people without really connecting with them. only interacting on an aesthetic level, not hugely concerned.. hmm. i think some really do make an effort to know people that bit more, and not just for the sake of art, for that is far too tenuous an anchor.
this is how we all beat ourselves up. and rightly so at times.
June 27th, 2004 at 11:25 pm
Warning: non-diplomatic spiel ahead.
You should be taking photos for only one purpose: yourself. Climbing up an imaginary list doesn't mean one jot if you aren't improving artistically. I have a rather specific photographic style; I can't stand pretty boring photographs. As a result, I actually find most of what's on the Hot List to be rather dull and that's probably why my Favourites list is so brief (to those of you on the Hot List, please don't take this personally, it's just one man's opinion).
My photoblog gets an absurdly small number of hits every day (usually, the search engines are my most frequent visitors!), and it used to bother me initially. But then I realised how irrelevant it was to the ultimate objective. The point of this spiel is, the only game worthwhile playing is that of becoming a better photographer. Go read Petteri Sulonen's Boring Photographs article at http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/Pontification/o_Boring_Photographs/a_Boring_Photographs.html , get out there and kick some photographic butt. And please, no more shots of flowers
Good luck,
Hin
June 28th, 2004 at 12:02 am
Tudy, one more thought occured to me later today. When you say "I didnt want to be on the top lists simply because I was visiting blogs and commenting like mad. If Im going to be there I want to be there because of the merit of my photos..."
I kinda feel like this: The nice thing about being on the top 100 list is that it means more people come to your site. You want your work to be viewed, as I think we all do otherwise we wouldn't publish it on the http://WWW. It's a rewarding thing to be higher on the list for that reason.
So - why shouldn't photoblog members be rewarded for participating in a community? Why shouldn't they be encouraged to post comments and interact and view each other's work - and be rewarded for such an effort by in turn having their own site viewed by more people?
I don't think it's cheating at all. Heck, it may even be part of the design of that list. By commenting all over the place and trying to push your way up the list, you have made yourself something more than a popular photoblogger - you've made yourself a popular *person* and a valuable member of this loosely-formed community.
lordy I hope that made sense.
We love ya Tudy.
June 28th, 2004 at 1:43 am
I like flowers... *sticks out her tongue*
June 28th, 2004 at 2:11 am
Tudy, I'm with everyone else on this one - visiting other blogs and drawing attention to you own work isn't cheating, nor is it game playing. If people didn't like what they see they wouldn't add you as a favourite, so I don't see that there's anything at all wrong with this strategy. Besides, and I think I mentioned this in a previous discussion, the way I see photoblogs.org (or any other internet communtiy) is a that it's a bit like a very large room full of a very large number of people some will get noticed, but many more won't. And those that are least likely to get noticed are the ones who don't interact, who don't 'say hello', and who don't participate over and above being physically present.
So I don't think visting other blogs and commenting is either cheating or game playing. Cheating is when you go round people's houses with a shotgun and demand they vote for you, that would be cheating, but simply drawing attention to your blog - when there are already more than 4.5K blogs listed at photoblogs.org - is absolutely essential if you want your work to become better known. So don't let any "ooh, you get around a bit" comments put you off.
Besides, photoblogs.org isn't tjust about who's the best photographer. If it were I wouldn't be listed at #1. I'm happy with a lot of my work, and do think that some of it's quite good, but I know that some of it is also quite weak. But chromasia, IMO, gets a lot of votes for other reasons.
First, when I intitially listed it I did what you did, I visited a lot of other blogs to say hello. In the context of a community that has over 4500 members this is absolutely essential if you want to be seen, but it seems to me that it's also a fairly natural thing to do. Photoblogs.org isn't a gallery, it's a community of fellow photobloggers, many of whom have commentable sites. And the reason for this is that we like to receive comments. I haven't been able to visit many sites recently (pressures of work, moving house etc), but over the summer I hope to revisit many of the sites that I like and find some new ones.
And second, chromasia (by luck rather than judgement) seems to have a number of features that people like - it has extensive archives that are easily navigable, I include a lot of info about each shot, and I post daily. None of these make me a better photographer, but they do seem to be popular (based on the feedback I receive).
Anyway, I guess my main point is that it doesn't matter what you do to get noticed, because as I've already mentioned, the number of comments you leave elsewhere only relates to the number of votes you receive if people like your work. And please keep visiting chromasia, I always appreciate your comments.
June 28th, 2004 at 4:33 am
I agree with you, Tudy. Sometimes I find myself checking my stats and profile every other minute. When I realise it, I stop doing that because this is what taking photos is not about.
A fair amount of critiquing goes on in the comments box of every photoblog, but the main objective isn't to get as many visitors as possible. It is to share your photographic view with other people who are similarly interested, and also to improve through the constructive ones.
It's not wrong to go about commenting at every other photoblog when you mean what you say, in the sincerest way possible. I enjoy reading others' comments on my photos, and try my best to write something meaningful when I see a great photograph.
Thanks for writing something that makes us all reflect, Tudy!
June 28th, 2004 at 9:00 am
[random rant or something]
I've found myself on the hotlist (construct). Very confusing at first and I was happy for it - but couldn't understand it. It didn't take long til I've "de-bugged the situation". I reasoned it must be one of two things or a combination thereof.
1. I'm new and have been looking at loads of photoblogs (from the hotlist, the toplist, the recent added and referers et cetera), and by God I am very impressed by a lot of people listed here.
2. I have my own site as startup page and the fastest way to get here is to click on the link I've got there, so referers will load up from that.
Anyway, I ain't on the hotlist because I shoot goodies, far from. It's definitely a result of my own surfing photoblogs.org.
One can argue that this effect make it more of a rewardslist towards people who surf on photoblogs.org and taking interest in all the stuff and sites listed. If it works like I come to believe.
Put that aside, I got curious and pulled out some referer data to see what generates most hits and how many hits the hotlist generates (got somewhere around 371 true hits, my counter sucks but nevertheless a whacky sick number and I'm happy for it).
The Hotlist here has sent me 13 percent of my hits.
Photoblogs.org as a whole has sent me 27 percent of my hits.
Photofriday.com (two entries made) has sent my way a good 46 percent of all real hits.
And oh, if I like a style that I see on someones blog, I'd sure as hell would imitate it for my own pleasure and to see where that brings me. I'm learning, I want to try and test it all.
Cheers // Linus
June 28th, 2004 at 10:53 am
Pretty long tirade ahead:
Hin - I agree with you that photography should be about ourselves. BUT I believe that the majority of photobloggers are relatively new to photography in general primarily because of the popularity of digital photography. Instant gratification is a great, if inefficient, learning tool. I feel that positive feedback via commenting gives people incentive to stick with photography, and eventually get to the basics. For example I’ve noticed that people like Jinky, Tudy, and now myself are interested and participating in traditional darkroom techniques. That may never have happened if this community wasn't here to push them along.
Beginners like to take photographs of “pretty†things. Sure “seasoned†photographers may have a problem with this. Take a look here:
http://www.photo.net/mjohnston/column55/
We’re a part of the photoblog community. For some people that doesn’t mean taking fine art photographs everyday. Maybe people are there to chronicle their life. Or the lives of flowers. Or even the lives of their cats. Do you think if people put the same photos up on photo.net for critique that they would continue with photography? Probably not.
I guess the game is what you make of it. If you feel you should be rewarded for your activity in the community, then comment away. If you feel that you should be rewarded for your photography, then take good photographs. But I feel that whatever game you play, you should play it for your own reasons, not reasons justified to this community.
June 28th, 2004 at 2:05 pm
Interesting thread. My take:
Everyone likes their work to be noticed, and if you put your work on the web, you are trying to be noticed.
As far as the hotlist or the top 100 lists are concerned, it is my view that in some ways they are navigationally useful, in some ways they are artificial. Most of the top sites are very good and it is great to have quick access to them. However, frequently I wonder why a mediocre site has a higher ranking than a great site. That's just a matter of taste, naturally, but I always think it is too bad when a great is buried.
The fact that the top sites are prominently displayed on the front page means that they will get the most hits; many folks probably don't drill down into the other levels. In other words, the rich get richer. perhaps there needs to be a "Random 10" or something like that to give the rest of the folks some exposure.
Many people have made the point that people should be taking photos for their own enjoyment. While this is true, I can't help thinking that anyone who is troubling to maintain a photoblog isn't the type of person who doesn't enjoy photography.
What many of us folks who maintain a site want is not just traffic, but for people to view our work and respond to it. That is how we grow as artists.
That being said, I am not sure how valuable using a "commenting" feature is. I have noted -- and am guilty of the same -- that 99% of the comments on photos are of the "Nice" or "Amazing" variety; this kind of feedback builds the ego, but doesn't really provide much insight. Commenting is so simple that it has almost lost its value. I personally don't use it, and just post my e-mail address. When I get an e-mail, I treasure it because it takes more effort and is less generic.
June 28th, 2004 at 6:39 pm
"perhaps there needs to be a "Random 10" or something like that to give the rest of the folks some exposure."
--I LOVE this idea! How do we make something like this happen?
June 28th, 2004 at 7:04 pm
I'm actually doing an experiment by not commenting on more than 3 or so blogs, (which are my absolute favorites) and seeing how many come back to my site. So far there are only about 2 regulars, yet I have 46 people listing me as a favorite... odd.
I want people that actually like my photos to comment on them, I did play the game in the begining but I also want people to appreciate my photography. After my experiment is up I'm going to go back and clean out my favorites and only add those that are truley my favorites and not just reciprocal links. Hope nobody gets offended (though they probably won't know who dropped them).
I'm becoming more of a recluse about my photos now and actually having to force myself to post stuff. I dunno... something happened this summer and I got into a weird funk... but I'm still taking photos.
June 28th, 2004 at 7:06 pm
actually I should clerify that the sites I will add will be sites that I actually visit everyday not just sites that I added because they added me and I thought their photos were cool but hardly visit their site...
sounded like I was bitter and was going to drop fav's that didn't comment on my site and that's not what I meant ;).
June 28th, 2004 at 7:38 pm
Well I think we all get caught in the game for some time, that's part of the fun...
In fact, I wanted to make a loong post like everyone else, but I'm f*cking tired, so this is the only stupid phrase I'll say for tonight.
And, oh, of course, I'm putting this message only to drain your attention to my wonderful website...
Thank you so much.
Ps: I love the random entry thing.
June 28th, 2004 at 7:42 pm
Creating a random 10 list shouldn't be that hard for me to implement on Photoblogs.org. Where should I put it?
June 28th, 2004 at 8:04 pm
Why do I have to shoot down that random thing every other month? There are >4500 sites in there. That's a 0.2% chance for your unfairly visited site to show up and a 0.02% chance that it will be visited...all of it based on the flawed assumtion that every visitor feels like visiting a random site.
There are MUCH more effective ways of getting people to your site.
June 28th, 2004 at 8:08 pm
One way to do it without wasting too much space would be to simply add a "Visit a random Photoblog" link or button.
"Let them eat cake!"
June 28th, 2004 at 8:34 pm
I love the idea of random 10 too. Because the Hot list and top 10 is most of the times redundant, I would put the random 10 between those 2.
There is one reason I would like to see a list of 10 instead of 1 single link : if you put one single link you will have to reload the page again and again in order to get a different site directed to. If you have a list of 10 at least you have these to play with without loading the page more than once.
Even if it's 0.2% I think it's worth a try. And nantel, having people coming to your site it's something, but having them vote for you it's another story.
I believe that the most exposure the top 10 gets, without comparison with "hidden photoblogs", the most demanding the average visitor becomes. They see so much perfection, it's hard to accept and appreciate pictures below a certain quality. Not everyone here has a 1000$ camera or the talent of the top 10.
June 28th, 2004 at 8:42 pm
I agree with Nantel's point that a random list won't instantly make things "fair".
On the other hand, it's a feature that people regularly ask for and it's not difficult for me to implement.
With that said... the only real question for me is, "Where do we put it and how will it be displayed?"
June 28th, 2004 at 9:00 pm
hi brandon,
i love this idea. since no one else has really put any out there here are two suggestions:
a) in the "browse photoblogs" box with a link that says "10 random" or something and takes you to a links list page like the top 100, etc.
b) create a box called 10 random (or something) like the referrers and put it below the "browse photoblogs" above the login, which you could make a touch smaller if needed and keep in the style of the boxes on the left side. you wouldn't need the minutes or dates so it would be smaller.
both of these would keep a nice balance to the pages, wouldn't distract from the style of the site and be easy to find as well as browse.
June 28th, 2004 at 9:06 pm
I'm not a programmer but I assume that it would be easy to have a button activate a script in which the server chooses a random site and opens it a new window. No need to reload photoblogs.org since the script doesn't change.
Hit the button, discover a new site. Close the window and hit the button again, lather, rince and repeat until something takes your breath away. Make it easy (i.e. as little mouse movement as necessary) and people will use it.
It you want to improve the statistics, you can limit the selection to the 1639 members pages.
June 28th, 2004 at 10:17 pm
Brandon,
Regarding the 'Random Photoblogs' feature, why not in a box below the 'Referrers' box in the right hand column? There's plenty of real-estate at least on my screen.
Then there's the issue of how random? Truly random, or on a shuffle basis? And whether every reload of the page will generate a new random list, or if you will cache the list for a few hours.
cheers,
Hin
June 29th, 2004 at 12:45 am
Whenever I want to see a random photoblog, I just pick one from the alphabetical list. Solves that problem.
At the risk of getting off topic (re: playing the game) My suggestion for lists would be to make folks on the top 100 ineligible for the hot 100.
It would make the top 100 switch up a little more.
Back to the original topic of playing the game. If we look at photoblogs.org as a community, then shouldn't we reward community leaders (those who post comments, actively use their favorites list, etc).?
The important thing is to keep it real and don't lose touch as to why you are here in the first place. It might be good for some people to spend 12 hours a day on the computer browsing blogland. Not me. I'd rather be shooting.
June 29th, 2004 at 5:43 am
I have to agree with Andre: a random blog function is a waste of space and effort.
The top and hot lists have some sort of value for me. They both (usually) indicate quality, and I can therefore (usually) be sure that visiting one of the listed sites is worthwhile. Perhaps it's naive, but I tend to believe that cream rises. If your site isn't getting into the lists, it's not because you don't comment enough or play the game enough. It's because your photos aren't good enough. And possibly also because you haven't been around long enough. It's that simple. Excellent work gets talked about, linked to, found and voted for. Not so excellent work don't.
As lane said, if you want a random pblog, pick one randomly from the alphabetical list. I've never done that myself, which says a lot about my desire to see a random blog.
June 29th, 2004 at 10:41 am
nantel, the navigational links have been fixed. thanks for letting me know.
June 29th, 2004 at 4:36 pm
Hmmmm, its an interesting topic. Like Tudy, I somehow found myself on the top 10 hot photoblogs and had no idea how that happened. I'm not there anymore and frankly, it kinda freaked me out being there ... I felt a bit of pressure in terms of what I was posting and so am not feeling badly at all about moving off the list.
I realize now that it was most likely a result of my photoblog surfing and commenting. Every couple of days, I go through my favourites and check out their photos - well, you know that is why they are my favourites : ) ... and then when I have time (read need a work break, like now), I either go through photofriday, check out recently added and bounce around looking at photographers I haven't seen before. I enjoy the photography and find it inspiring. I like commenting because generally, I appreciate it when people give me comment via email or the comment system. I have met some really wonderful and talented people. Its all good.
I think we are all here because we enjoy photography, we enjoy sharing that photography and we enjoy the interaction. I don't think that anyone should feel badly about that or guilty or whatever. I don't think of it as a competition but more of an obsession. I have become obsessed with taking photos and that has spread to the enjoyment of looking at photos, both mine and others.
my three cents
June 30th, 2004 at 1:25 am
I don't take the time to try and rise above everyone else on the list, I just like taking pictures, and I see myself getting better at it, partly due to becoming more curious, partly being inspired by things I see here. I also try to only comment on images that I really like
I like the option of ten random blogs too, if I want a 'quickie', I can load 10 blogs into tabs, and have something to look at for a while
June 30th, 2004 at 2:32 am
Thanks for the post tudy. Interesting and by the response, certainly hit a chord with a lot of people here. I know it did with me!
I will not repeat the many valid points that have been raised in this long thread except to say that if you can have fun and learn from it in your participation in the photoblogging world, then that is enough. Enough of the guilt already! lol!
Regarding random thingyness...what about a web-ring for photobloggers? Doesn't the code for those usually scoots you to a random site? (There probably is one already and my suggestion has brought a lot of groans ~ if this is the case, sorry people, I actually live under a rock most of the time and only come out occassionally to post photographs and browse!)
June 30th, 2004 at 8:19 am
There is/was a photoblogs webring:
http://www.digitalwoe.com/photos.php
Not sure exactly what its status is.
June 30th, 2004 at 9:12 am
Thanks Brandon, clicked that link and got this:
"The PhotoBlogs webring is temporarily shut down due to the suckiness that is RingSurf."
LOL!
July 3rd, 2004 at 5:33 pm
I was once accused by someone of voting for myself multiple times with different email addresses because a lot of my friends voted for me but no one else. I guess it seemed like it was me doing it. This seemed silly to be fighting about but yes, I do ask people to vote for me sometimes, and a lot of my votes are from friends who don't visit photoblogs regularly, only mine. so technically I am their only favorite.
I am currently at #100 on the hotblogs list, and I know my hits will go down when I am dropped off. That list brings me more linked hits than any other site does.
If you are looking towards photography as your career and use your site to get your name out there, then this hotlist can be pretty important. If it is a hobby, then maybe it's not as important.
I use my blog to chart my progress as a photography student and to hopefully get shooting jobs, etc. I have registered with some other blog listing sites, but this is by far the best one for getting yourself exposure. I rely on the exposure the hotblogs list gives me, but I don't cheat to get it.
July 3rd, 2004 at 5:38 pm
as I wrote that comment, I was knocked off the hot list completely....hopefully my new look coming up will change this!
July 7th, 2004 at 1:41 pm
One note on the original posting.... If that fellow noticed that you sure do get around alot - then they must have been to all the same places as you to notice.
If you think that someone is staring at you - they you yourself are staring as well.
Now for the promoting thing....
visit my photoblog at http://www.shutterview.ca
October 12th, 2004 at 5:00 pm
One thing I would like to see is a feature that shows the photoblogs that have had VERY little activity. And sometimes, I get so sick of looking at the popular listings, that I've now resorted to using the search and plant random words in to see what pops up.