Mon, June 28th, 2004 by btezra
Street photography and photojournalism in general has always appealed to me. They are definitely my preferred categories of interest photography-wise.
Although, in the recent past, I have found myself in search of new subject matter outside my normal realm of comfort. I felt a need to diversify and explore & to improve my technical abilities (of which I must admit I have never concerned myself with to any great degree).
I have sought out, in addition to other new avenues, shooting macros, mostly of floral subjects and butterflies.
*You can reach the macro category by clicking on this link*
I feel as if I have a fair amount to learn while shooting these subjects in the future...composition, color, DOF, etc. - I was hoping, with the advice of those who have a far greater grasp on the how to's and such here @ photoblogs.org, that I could improve on my future attempts and results.
I would appreciate any open, honest and constructive criticism on the 17 images I have posted to date in my macro category on WTHHLN.com/photos/ - any and all advice is welcome in the form of a comment on any specific image!
One of the greatest attributes of this blog is the advice we can all give one another, so I thank you all in advance for your assistance!!
~btezra~
New server!
June 28th, 2004 at 9:56 am
hmm
u remember a little while ago
there was a short post
by this gal
about her project
and she got, in my opinion
unfairly tagged for self-canvassin
self-promotion .
somehow..
i don't begrudge you comments
but
isn't the position of contributer being abused
when used primarily to service one's own venture
sorry
just wanted to be honest here
June 28th, 2004 at 10:03 am
Your shots are fine. They're not the kind of shots I'd ever take, but your shots are fine.
June 28th, 2004 at 11:56 am
i clicked this topic in hopes that it might be something that would relate to me. it didn't, but that's okay because i'm going to ask a question that will:
how many of you are getting useful critiques in the comments on your sites?
i ask because i find that every single one of the comments that we've received have been positive, and most of them very generic; e.g. "great shots", "nice", "good colors", etc.
then there are the shots that don't receive any comments whatsoever. i don't know if it's because they are poor or because everyone else lost their connection to the internet.
of course, i also find that these are the kind of comments that i post on your sites. my reasoning is probably along the same lines as everyone else's: 1) i don't comment on shots i'm not really fond of for fear of hurting feelings/ ruffling feathers; and 2) my positive comments are general and generic because i don't like overanalyzing art, and i'm too lazy to go into great detail.
anyway, for future reference, should any of you ever view our humble site and feel the urge/need to leave some constructive criticism - feel free - we're both pretty thick skinned.
June 28th, 2004 at 12:55 pm
~Ian, I give an honest critique every time I comment, mostly on techs that I have picked up posting on another site where the critique is quite serious, but I never leave a comment that is demonstrative or obscenely harmful, rather, things one could change and/or alter to do better on the next shot, and I have always stressed to the shooter than my comments are not to be taken as hurtful or malicious, and I have always got an email in return after commenting for the first time by the shooter thanking me for being critical in a + fashion.
Frank:
"One of the greatest attributes of this blog is the advice we can all give one another, so I thank you all in advance for your assistance!!"
*I included that because I was not grandstanding, rather I wanted to draw upon those who have expertise or experience with the subject matter I have taken a dip into recently, and since photoblogs.org is a fairly diverse pool of shooters who choose to shoot all kinds of subjects I thought someone out there could point me towards a resource or lend advice from their own backgrounds(s), I placed the post in the Photo Tips category so to act as a possible reference for others seeking the same answers or advice.
----
If the post appears not worthy, please, Brandon, remove it, I do not want to appear anything less than inquisitive and wanting to draw from the experience of those shooters I am reaching out to, plus making it a forum for advice and ideas on the how to’s and such of shooting macros/nature shots.
June 28th, 2004 at 3:45 pm
Im with you, btezra. This post surely isn't adversiting (or if it is, every answer including a link to the author's site also is
). As a beginner, I also appreciate constructive comments that might improve my skills next time I'm about to tke a similar picture. Not that my ego wouldn't love a plain "awesome work!" from time to time, but that's not the point 
And now folks, please no diskussion about advertising - this man wants help with macros (though I really don't think he needs any *g*)
cheers,
matthias
June 28th, 2004 at 5:51 pm
"how many of you are getting useful critiques in the comments on your sites?"
Me, so that's one at least
But I've found that unless you ask it doesn't happen. I include a reasonably lengthy summary of my images and often request some constructive critique, normally about some aspect of that particular shot (composition, colour, whatever), and when I do that I often get that sort of feedback.
Have a look at the comments for these two images (particularly the first one) and you'll see what I mean:
http://www.chromasia.com/iblog/archives/0406240652_clean.php
http://www.chromasia.com/iblog/archives/0406250724_clean.php
Generally though, I think it's much harder to leave constructive criticism on blogs that are only image based, or include a one-liner by way of description because, as Ian notes, there's always a risk that you might offend someone. So if you do want such comments, find a way to make that explicit on your blog.
June 28th, 2004 at 6:16 pm
-->"how many of you are getting useful critiques in the comments on your sites?"
I find the most useful comments are those in which someone says they like the work. These are useful, because they are encouraging and make me want to do more.
I find the most interesting comments are those which examine the content of the work in some way, but these are exceedingly rare.
I usually avoid leaving technical comments. People never seem to leave technical comments on my site either, though I've seen plenty elsewhere. They rearly seem useful to me. I might leave such a comment if the artist specifically asks for it.
Just ask yourself: If you were at an amateur art show, would you go up and suggest to the artist that their painting would be better if the subject was a little more to the right, or if the sky was a less intense blue?
June 28th, 2004 at 7:20 pm
Yep, shamless self-promo
.
I like Ian's topic rephrasing of the topic:
"how many of you are getting useful critiques in the comments on your sites?"
Answer:
Not me, I only get the "nice photo!" comments, but I am guilty of giving the same kind of comments. Truth is that I once got ripped for giving some minor crits to a friend(he chose to end the friendship over it) and since I've been reluctant to offer any critiques in the fear I will offend someone. It's too easy for someone to take a critique negetivly if they are insecure about their work. So I understand that when it boils down to it, sometimes all you can say is "nice photo!" Also after visiting 40+ sites you start to run out of stuff to say about good photos... which is another reason why I'm taking a break from commenting
.
June 28th, 2004 at 9:17 pm
~Matt, did you miss the whole part, or I will say majority if not overwhelming majority of the post that asked for comments, advice or suggestions on my recent efforts to dig into new subject completely foreign to me, and I supplied a link to provide a reference point to what I was talking about subject & content-wise?
I really don't need or seek out self-promotion here (and Brandon, if you feel as such was the case you are more than welcome to delete the post, as i stated before) the reason why I needed to post this was for someone, anyone, to step up to the plate and offer up experience as a guide, and it turned into a discussion about self-promotion and commenting (small>which was cool after all to get those thoughts and reactions on commenting, a worthy topic for a new post IMHO), I am only disappointed someone did not comment, yet, on any pointers on macros shots of nature and wildlife...the purpose of an open forum is to cite examples that are factual to provide a basis for what you are asking and to seek out answers or advice to point you in the right direction~
June 28th, 2004 at 9:19 pm
I think the thing is that unless a critique is requested it isn't really warranted for the most part.
I do like to get the occasionaly bit of technical information or comparison sharded through my site's comments even though I don't outright ask for them. but the "critiques" that I usually find uninteresting and in some cases annoying are those that focus on composition and colour too much.
I am happy if someone can help me take better photos by lending me some of their technical knowledge or tips that only experience can bring but for me critiques regarding my framing of subjects, choice of subjects, etc. are useless.
I don't 100% love these elements in every photo I post but I also don't think there is a gold standard for composing photos.
I also get a certain level of this type of commentary from people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about but hope to come across as if they do.
sorry... rant over
June 28th, 2004 at 9:49 pm
davin, i'd like to see a little more *humanness* in your work, buddy. you and ross both - it's like you are disowning your own species. ;D - jk,
June 28th, 2004 at 10:31 pm
Humans are overrated.
June 28th, 2004 at 10:49 pm
"how many of you are getting useful critiques in the comments on your sites?"
Hmm, about 30%, I would say. Most of them, like Matt's, are one-liners like "Fantastic!". Some of them, however, carefully explore the photograph and tell me what they like or don't like. These are the ones that are useful, because it helps me to improve my next shot.
I agree with djn, people don't take a page with just 1 photo so seriously as they're afraid to offend. (agh, that means that I'll have to start asking for constructive critiques and viewing the photo I want to post each day with more scrutiny)
Going right over to your macro pictures to take a look now, btezra.
June 28th, 2004 at 11:11 pm
Shoot more humans. It's too easy to shoot still life. Macros of flowers and vignettes of urban life grow weary on my eyes. (and so does MT, but that's another topic)
June 29th, 2004 at 12:37 am
There's a good tutorial on macro photography by one Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. here:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=188714
You can view Dr. Plonsky's photo.net portfolio of insect (and other) macros here:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?include=all&user_id=351402
And here is M. Plonsky's own site:
http://www.mplonsky.com/photo/
I'm a sucker for that stuff, and he's the best I've come across.
My advice for what it's worth: don't limit yourself to butterflies. Butterflies are delightful, but other insects are perhaps more animated and have more curiously microscopic details (hairy legs and bulbous complicated eyes, for instance) that make for some very dramatic shots. But butterflies do rock!
About comments in general: My favourites are when someone has something conversational or personal to say about my photos (such as "it makes me feel like poutine" or "wow, it reminds me of this one time in band camp..."). Critique is welcome too, of any kind (aesthetic, technical, political, erotic) as long as it is informed or at least unpretentious. And of course gushing compliments are what I live for... so pucker up, shutterbugs.
I guess I leave comments as a way of just saying "hi, I was here", and usually they're nice.
June 29th, 2004 at 1:22 am
Hey, I got a comment.
It was nice. I wrote back, and she wrote back and I'm thinking about what to say next. I think that may be the justification for all of our minor vanities and our whoring around photoblogs.org and others.
But critique... I crave it, don't you? I want to know if people see what i see in my work. I want to point out stuff that i see in others' work and ask if that's what they meant.
But the medium... it's too much like email, or writing on a bathroom wall. So easy to misconstrue or mislead.
It's a lot like writing groups: 10 neurotic individuals meeting for the first time and sharing their brain children with a trembling voice. Some work, some really don't. I think this one is working fine.
But maybe there's something that's missing from the world of virtual photography. The meeting of people, the shaking of hands, the wonder at meeting an array of people equally, but differently geeky than you. Seeing them respond to your work.
And responding back.
June 29th, 2004 at 2:50 am
hahha. yea btzera, i know u don't mean to do a self-promo, it's just that it kinda appears as a platform, and we don't wanna set it as a precedent do we. (someone says i'm too serious) haha. so maybe u could have used a different platform. so cheers dude.
and i like the more apt re-phrasin of the topic. i feel that i don't usually make very detailed technical comments out of lack of knowledge (amateur for now!) and sometimes sheer laziness. and perhaps others identify.. but i do try and say, as most of you do, what it is like about the picture. and i appreciate the same.
i find the most useful comments to me are not those which are technical, which i hardly get coz i don't ask, but those that tell me the picture has spoken and awakened a certain emotion in another. that to me is what art is about. setting one thinking, and feeling.
June 29th, 2004 at 5:02 am
btzera, I think the "problem" with your post isn't that it's shameless self-promotion (it isn't) but rather that it's specifically focused on one person, instead of the "this could be useful for everybody" style which we're used to here. But it's turned into that kind of discussion anyway, so all's well that ends well.
I get a few "I like it" comments, but don't get much useful critique. This doesn't really surprise or disappoint me, since I don't present my images as art. They're snapshots which I don't think too hard about, so I certainly don't expect anyone else to, either.
When I comment elsewhere, I try and analyse a little and go into more detail than "Wow!", but it depends very much on the photographer's presentation. Most pblogs just don't seem like places for big discussions (your chromasia being a notable exception, David). When I get the feeling that the photographer takes his own work seriously, and actually wants critique (which means both compliments *and* criticism), then I try and spend some time and brain cells on the photos that really speak to me.
June 29th, 2004 at 11:43 am
btezra, you asked for critique of your macro shots:
Firstly, I noticed two problems that were common to all of them: 1) They lack depth of field, and 2) they are oversharpened.
I think Macro shots look better when the entire subject is in sharp focus. So, if it's a butterfly, then try to get the entire creature sharp, not just one side.
The oversharpening probably stems from poor camera technique, because if the image seemed snappy enough to begin with, you wouldn't have felt the need to sharpen so much.
With macro shots, you will constantly run up against problems of sharpness and DOF. Two very useful tools to help are 1) a tripod, and 2) a ringflash. A ringflash can help you stop down to get more depth, and to use a fast shutter to avoid camera shake and subject movement. But you need to be careful to balance the flash against the existing light, or all the backgrounds will look too dark. All of this is best done with a very flexible camera-- one with plenty of manual controls.
Is this the kind of advice that you wanted?
June 29th, 2004 at 12:28 pm
That's the kind of advice that I appreciate. Now I have to go find out what a ringflash is.
June 29th, 2004 at 12:45 pm
I enjoy having critques of my photos for the most part though I don't get very many.
~btezra~ is the only one that comes to mind that doesnt mind taking the time to give constructive advice on how to improve a shot Ive taken. I only bothers me when someone says something like.
"I don't understand why you people use that overlay filter so much, this was probably a great photo until you mutilated it with that process."
Thats not constructive in my opinon. They could have asked the same question and phrased it differently and I wouldnt have taken offense. Ya know? It really bothers me when the same person makes a "critque" and doesnt leave a site or leaves a fake email addy. That just says jealousy to me... Ok Im off the soap box. LOL
I took a look at my own macros and decided Im not the person to be giving out advice on macro shots. LOL... but your btezra are really nice in my humble opion.
June 29th, 2004 at 1:55 pm
[b]I welcome constructive critiques[/b]
Not one photo can be perfect, even some of the masters of photography.
anyway, I'm going pro in the next few years and would rather hear what I can improve now then getting rejected by art directors and potential clients.
btzera, As far as your macro collection. It only works as a collection. I didn't see any one of the photo that would stand out by it self. Composition is all the same. Straight shot from 90 degree or from above square with the flower. I would play with cropping and different compositions.
June 29th, 2004 at 4:24 pm
I don't feel confident in my own skills at this point to give good advice on macros though I agree with Mona, cropping and varying composition might help them stand out more.
This post has been very helpful to me. As I am on a pretty steep learning curve, I have been hoping for some good criticism and advice on my photos. Actually, btzera has provided me with some good pointers over the past month and as he knows, I muchly appreciate that. I think that when I return from my vacation, I am going to do some site edits in an attempt to solicite constructive feedback - I am planning on taking some classes in September and I hope this too will help me with my growth.
Photography, not so easy but a whole lotta fun : )
June 29th, 2004 at 6:29 pm
think if the comments are well considered then it should not be thought of as being negative or rude. I myself am guilty of leaving, "great shot" comments on peoples sites, but usually its because I tend to look at most blogs during the last part of my lunch hour whilst eating a sandwich and if I see an image I like I would rather leave some kind of message than none at all.
I think most people are posting images because its a way of expressing themselves, and comments and constructive criticisms are always good, again all images are created for a reason and chosen to be displayed on a site for a reason so that has to be considered first, not all people are posting their work specifically to have a large critique made of it.
June 30th, 2004 at 9:01 am
I always try to be specific about what it is I like in someone's shots, as I always appreciate it when people leave such comments on my site. I think the only negative comment I've had was criticising the actual person in the photo (a homeless busker) rather than my photographic skills:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/jamescoglan/?id=63
I'd rather people said they didn't like my work rather than keeping quiet, at least you know you're getting a reaction! and it helps you focus on learning from your mistakes.
June 30th, 2004 at 10:08 am
Ian, here are my personal reasons for not criticizing on photo sites:
1. Most times people didn't ask for criticism. I don't want to risk telling someone I don't like something, even in a constructive way, and have it turn out it was their favourite photo ever and they're crying on their keyboard about some stupid internet jerk who spoiled it for them.
2. Self confidence. I am terrified I will make an ass of myself spouting some nonsense that is easily tossed aside by someone with more experience and knowledge.
3. In your particular case, as you know, you are the one who got me taking photos again after a several year hiatus, and I'm still learning from things you show me and tell me. I don't feel comfortable criticizing your work at this point, though maybe in the future I will.
June 30th, 2004 at 10:09 am
Ian, here are my personal reasons for not criticizing on photo sites:
1. Most times people didn't ask for criticism. I don't want to risk telling someone I don't like something, even in a constructive way, and have it turn out it was their favourite photo ever and they're crying on their keyboard about some stupid internet jerk who spoiled it for them.
2. Self confidence. I am terrified I will make an ass of myself spouting some nonsense that is easily tossed aside by someone with more experience and knowledge.
3. In your particular case, as you know, you are the one who got me taking photos again after a several year hiatus, and I'm still learning from things you show me and tell me. I don't feel comfortable criticizing your work at this point, though maybe in the future I will.
June 30th, 2004 at 1:25 pm
michael,
1) i know, right?
2) exactly. there are few things i hold in more disdain than pretentious talk about art.
3) aww. do i have to paypal you the $10 now or can i wait until next paycheck? (plus, can i get some stats on how many people read that compliment?)
July 1st, 2004 at 1:47 am
There are some pretty interesting people here. I don't really get many comments, but I don't really ask for it. I leave comments when something strikes me. I seek feedback IRL from everyone around me, but not online. I might start doing that more.
July 2nd, 2004 at 10:52 am
~PIXPOP, yes, I was looking for critical comments and advice, I did utilize the PShop unsharp mask on the butterflies, did go down the path of over-sharpening, they were shot with a fixed lens DiMage 7 in Macro setting, could not control the focus aside from AF, they are first attempts at the subject matter, will use my Nikon MF 35 mm next time to insure a crisper focus, although I thought most of the butterflies and flowers had a certain DOF that was appealing, not much further I could have gone without blowing the frame IMO, but your observation is well-noted and will be carried w/ me next time I hit Phipps to shoot, thank you for being critical I appreciate it
Mona: thnx, I am all about varying perspective and such, just neglected to go "nuts" on my first attempts, but next time I assure you I will take your advice and go "nuts"...
thnx one and all, I found some helpful advice and great commentary here...the reason I posted this!
I am more of a street shooter, b&w photojournalism stuff, but I went out to try shooting a subject mater I had yet to appreciate and in macro which I have never really attempted...it's good to branch out, learn new things ya know...~
July 3rd, 2004 at 8:10 pm
I think photography, like art, is subjective.
Generally I try to set up my shot when I shoot it; in other words, most of the time what you see is what I saw. And while cropping is one of the fantastic byproducts of digital photography; sometimes it's the unexpected that makes an image for me -- I don't know that any one person or method is 'the way' -- but I say find your glorious uniqueness and run with it. You'll know when you've found it -- the ping! is unmistakable. =)
August 8th, 2004 at 3:51 pm
I love comments, although they usually are by friends telling me my shot is great. They seem to think I am this gloriously wonderful photographer, where I tend to look at myself as someone with the passion and drive for it, with a good eye and a LOT to learn. I appreciate their support immensely, but my loving friends don't do much to help my photography grow as far as comments go, if you know what I mean.
I did get a constructive criticism comment the other day and I thanked the person for it. I don't have my site to stroke my own ego, I do it to learn and grow, and to chart my growth as a student. I wish more people with photoblogs would comment, but with my new design that seems to be happening more.
I leave comments on other people's sites all the time.I try to set an hour or so each night to visit my fave blogs and leave comments. I tend to only comment on the ones I like, but I usually explain why with more than just I love the colors...I try to explain what the image made me feel/think.