Tue, February 15th, 2005 by Thomas Hawk
PhotoPermit: SF Muni Photo "Ban" So let's see, it now appears, according to SFist and BoingBoing that folks are being hassled for taking photos in the Muni system in San Francisco. Wow, after being hassled personally by the police in Grand Central Terminal in New York and reading about not being able to photograph "The Bean" in Chicago, I didn't think this one would hit so close to home.
I
do have to say that I've taken hundreds of pictures of both BART and SF
Muni and have yet to be hassled but still, this one just hits a little
too close to home.
"After walking over to the group of Fare
Inspectors and BART Police Officers, Officer Ryan returned to speak to
me. He expressed his frustration at the situation and me by saying:
"Would it have been so difficult for you to just stop taking
photographs when these guys told you to stop? If you weren't on your
soapbox, I'd be out fighting real crime rather than standing around
here dealing with you." He expounded further, "Even if there is no law
forbidding photography in the MUNI System, the Fare Inspectors have the
right to refuse you service for any reason they choose, including
taking photographs. Once they refuse you service they can swear out a
citizens arrest for trespassing. I, or other officers, will book you
and you'll spend the rest of your weekend in jail. It won't be for
taking photographs, so your weekend would be ruined yet you'd never get
a chance to argue the matter of taking photographs before a judge."
Who is this Officer Ryan and is this type of intimidation really legal?
Personally
I've also been hassled and told I couldn't take photographs at
Starbuck's and PF Chang's China Bistro here locally in the Bay Area.
This is not good news. Guess I'll have to add SF Muni to my Directory of Bay Area Photo Policies. SFist is putting together a little rally on Saturday at noon to look into this story deeper.
February 15th, 2005 at 11:53 am
Thomas, thank you for yet another informative article.
I once read somewhere that success means focusing 10% on the problem, and 90% on the solution.
With that in mind. . . I got to thinking that we've got a pretty large community here who pretty much show us all the world, every day, in a good way.
Maybe collectively there is something we can do about all this, before the exceptions become more of the rule.
Any ideas?
February 15th, 2005 at 12:00 pm
The only reasons I've heard for restricting photography on transport systems is that you could be a terrorist doing research, which is stupid and frankly insulting to everyone's intelligence. A terrorist isn't going to be stopped by a restriction on photography, there are a million ways to take photographs without being seen. A terrorist certainly isn't going to impersonate an amateur photographer and draw attention to himself as all photographers do. The only people these restrictions effect in the slightest are people like us.
February 15th, 2005 at 12:05 pm
"Maybe collectively there is something we can do about all this, before the exceptions become more of the rule."
The only way to nip this in the bud is to address the concerns of the transport authorities. Point out that photography isn't a threat and that restricting it does nothing to improve security whatsoever. That photography is no more of an invasion of privacy below ground as it is above on the streets. Show them the marvellous history and tradition of subway photography and encourage them to think of the system as a part of the city.
How realistic this is though I don't know. I suspect you'd need a lot of weight behind you to get to talk to people that matter, and that they are being advised on these matters by higher powers. Perhaps we can try to make it an issue in the media with the same points as above.
February 15th, 2005 at 1:03 pm
~in a day & age of big brother watching over you at traffic lights, on city streets, listening, investigating...the Patriot Act, it's hard to accept being watched over while you did something or in this case, restricted from doing something at all, in public...I know the rhetoric involved with terrorists as they scope out bldgs., public spaces, transportation and the like, taking images is one way of gathering info and the like for them on 'potential targets'. But the day your government rules out of fear and takes away liberties or simple freedoms in lieu of that conjured up fear is disgraceful to imagine, we are a free nation, removing freedoms only stirs the pot a bit more, tightness the control and the results.
Sad.
Can't shoot much of anywhere any more it seems, everything/where is a target, right?
That sux, I like shooting on the street, in public.
February 15th, 2005 at 1:10 pm
Folks, one bad muni cop does not a policy make. There is no photo ban on Muni. Repeat: THERE IS NO PHOTO BAN ON MUNI. Just because one photographer has a hard time with a jerk guard, that doesn't mean there's a policy in place. Don't give in to the hysterics.
February 15th, 2005 at 1:22 pm
If there is not a policy in place to prohibit photography in Muni -- and again I've taken hundreds of photos down there without ever being hassled -- it would be nice to hear this from somebody in the Mayor's office, the SFPD or the MTA. SFist ran the story yesterday as did BoingBoing who both generate significant traffic. SFist said that they had calls in to all three of the above agencies and have not reported back on the outcome.
Hopefully indeed this is just an example of "one bad muni cop." If indeed this is not policy and the mere case of a rogue cop with an attitude, it would be nice to see the SFPD issue an apology for the incident and clarify the situation.
Until this happens one can only assume that there may be more to this story than a single bad cop. If this is a bad cop then this is a total abuse of power and it is important that those charged with the sacred task of enforcing the laws recognize this, take steps to educate their officers better and issue an apology to the photographer who was threatened.
This is not something just to let pass by.
February 15th, 2005 at 1:24 pm
"Don't give in to the hysterics."
There is no ban now but there is a visible trend towards restricting photography on transport systems. The proposed ban on all unauthorised photography and videoing proposed by NY's MTA is the beginning. It is important not to give in to "hysterics" but at the same time NOW is the time to do something.
February 15th, 2005 at 1:41 pm
The issue is that some MUNI guys tried to enforce a law that doesn't exist and the cop didn't know or cared for the law either (neither in regards to taking pictures, nor in regard to trespassing). That's bad enough, thanks to the politics of fear, independent of the actual legal facts. The photographer did the right thing, stayed calm, and made it public. Now, the legal facts might actually change, but to fight that, instead of complaining about the guys who are just doing their underpaid and undereducated jobs, you'll have to throw the politicians out of office who are making a career out of creating imaginary threats and fear. Not saying the cop wasn't a jerk, just saying that his elected offical boss might be a bigger jerk.
February 15th, 2005 at 1:43 pm
Tom - Amen, brother! When it becomes clear that this is not policy and just one bad cop, then he SHOULD be punished. Unfortunately, in my experience, getting a cop in trouble for bad behavior is almost impossible. Remember fajitagate?
Miles - Yes, there is a visible trend. But look at all the examples. NY *proposed* a law - worth getting involved with, sure, but it's still NOT A LAW. In San Francisco, where I shoot every day, THERE IS NO BAN. THERE IS NO LAW. Just remember that.
If we cry wolf every time there's a jerk cop, people will stop listening to us. Let's save the outrage for when there is actually a proposed law or ban.
February 15th, 2005 at 1:56 pm
derek - totally agree dude.
i like to take subway shots but admitedly have been afraid in the past of shooting because im just not into getting harrased by the poilce... in this age of "guilty until proven innocent" when it comes to people of my ethnicity - Im just too afraid to even deal with that Bullshit. But you reminded me that there isnt actually a LAW for me to break when i take subway shots...
February 15th, 2005 at 2:08 pm
"Let's save the outrage for when there is actually a proposed law or ban."
And there is in New York. I didn't think we were restricting the discussion here to events only in San Francisco, or that we shouldn't feel concerned with events in other parts of the world.
February 15th, 2005 at 2:18 pm
I like the part where the cop say's "I'd be out fighting real crime rather than standing around here dealing with you" I work with police on a daily basis. It should be I'd be out having a cup of coffee or surfing the net instead of standing around here dealing with you.
February 15th, 2005 at 7:45 pm
Miles I think you might be on to something.
Anyone have ideas for next steps?
February 16th, 2005 at 3:14 am
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